House of ZAN Forum

[Grand Master Sef]

while I may not like a lot about the WWE's current direction, I'm starting to really like a lot of it.



Having Bret as the GM of RAW is brilliant. He can be on TV and sell his merch and be himself without having to give matches that we all know he's unable to do. Love it!



Call me what you will but I'm REALLY starting to love the Whiny I'm Sweet Heel Batista. It REALLY works. This week's promo sold me. It makes me laugh so much. "This place is nothing without me!! It'll go bankrupt within a week! All of you will be so bored, you'll pay to see me!" I LOL'D! THEN Justin Roberts says "Ladies and gentlemen, let's hear it for Batista!" the crowd boos and he says "You'll be nothin' without me!" Wow. This entire segment was perfect.



For whatever reason, I found Jon Lovitz pretty hilarious.
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[Dana]

Jon Lovitz is in that picture?

Also, from what I've been reading, Batista is done w/ WWE for a while.
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[Ravage]

My big issue is that too much talent is buried on RAW, and Taker really has no opposition on Smackdown. Plus, Swagger is nub.

I've found the Divas scene to be largely stale. I love Maryse, but Eve doesn't do it for me. We NEED that Maryse/Gail feud to be done right.

Cena is boring as always...nothing new there.

Having Edge and Jericho on the same show is basically a vortex of awesome heelage...however, with Edge, Jericho, Cena, HHH (technically), Batista (maybe), Sheamus, and Orton on the same show, it's totally top heavy. This wouldn't have been bad if Miz, Morrison, and Dibiase had ended up on Smackdown, but they didn't, and they're largely not going to get anywhere.

Morrison is being disappointingly booked. I honestly feel he's the best in-ring performer in the company right now.

Miz is hopefully being booked for a big push, but given what I've said before, I don't see how this is going to happen. Of the midcard, he's probably the best all around performer, if you count Christian as main-eventer.

R-truth as US Champ? Eh, not bad, but it should continue to be him/Dibiase. I want to see Jericho/Miz as tag champs...then have Show take them on by himself. I can totally see this happening.

Right now, I am in agreement with Alex that Orton is the best thing happening in the WWE. His current role as vicious tweener is excellent. People BLOW THE ROOF OFF when his music hits, but he's definitely not playing face quite yet. Hopefully he sticks with that. Alex thinks they'll eventually replace Taker with Orton...not at the dead man, but as the lead "tweener" monster character, whatever persona they choose to apply to that. If he can continue like he is, I totally see this happening. I remember thinking a while back that they should pass on the ACTUAL dead man gimmick to someone after Mark Callaway retires...think they could pull that off with Orton? I sure do, but we know that won't happen.

Not watching Smackdown b/c it takes too much effort, so pfffft. I do likey Layla, though...

Guest hosts have been pretty meh. I'm mixed on Brett being GM, because he has the charisma of a bag of potatoes. He does lend a lot of name-credibility though, so that's good. I had REALLY hoped the big GM reveal would the the Rock. Guess they have something else big planned for him. Having Brett as GM is great while they have the Pink Brigade as tag champs, but it will get stale quickly.

[Grand Master Sef]

EXCUSE ME! EXCUSE ME! I wasn't finished...



I laughed my ARS OFF @ Khali! I love Young Frankenstein and laugh at that part every time. This was better than I could of hoped for. Khali was so off, it was PERFECT!



Segment saved by Ted DiBiase. Classic segment where he wants to buy the eye. Add a little Santino and the Vulcan Neck Pinch & its great. Lovitz line "Must be good he's got a belt" was great. It seems like the WWE's wrestling has become total crap but their characters and segments have become gold.

The rest of the show was meh. & what was up with those tards at the end of the Hart Dynasty match?
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[Ravage]

They are Rikishiites.

Perhaps THAT'S how Rock will come back.

[Dana]

The two guys who attacked the HF are Rikishi's twin sons, and the woman is Snuka's daughter.

I like Orton as the mysterious tweener, but that will get old quickly if the fans don't feel any reciprocation from the guy they're trying to cheer.

I still can't stand Edge, and likely never will be able to again. It goes beyond his whole thing with The Boring Matt Hardy and Lita. His " OMG ME SO ANGRY" character is old & busted. They obviously aren't gonna pair him with Christian, neither as a tag team nor in a feud. He just keeps on beating the "opportunist" dead horse gimmick while still calling himself the "rated-R superstar" on a production that has clearly gone PG. LAAAME.

Cena's matches are all the same, although I have a feeling the one at the PPV was probably a good one to watch. But not for $50. I enjoy his promos... this week he called Sheamus the "human jar of mayonnaise" and said he was "moonlighting as Beaker from the Muppets with a chip on his shoulder." I LOL'D SRSLY!

DiBiase & Virgil = awesome. His dad started out this way and I've always wanted to see them continue that gimmick with the spoiled son. Bringing Virgil back has been fun, but I feel like Ted Jr. needs someone different to continue the "legacy." Besides, where's Virgil's tuxedo? You can't just throw a t-shirt and sport jacket on him and expect people to "get it."

I was digging Batista as the whiny heel too, but apparently he's gone now, and maybe for quite some time. Nice ending to that feud, I thought... As for HHH, he won't be back for a while either.

Can't comment on Smackdown, since I don't get to watch it. That will all change when it moves to Sci-Fi, though. Looking forward to that.

NXT had something going with the Daniel Bryan/Michael Cole thing, but this week they just didn't handle it right. They obviously want fans to get behind Daniel Bryan. If that's true, why did Cole use such common-sense criticism of Bryan's "performance" on NXT as a contestant? I actually found myself agreeing with Cole on a few things, and that just pissed me off. Stupid Cole. I do think Wade Barrett will "win" NXT, but of course, that was decided months ago.

Maryse vs. Gail feud NEEDS TO HAPPEN. SRSLY. Eve has improved a lot, but she's nowhere near Gail's level. Neither is Maryse, for that matter, but moreso than Eve, and besides -- Gail can carry any of them in a match and make it interesting.

Bret Hart as GM was a pleasant surprise, but I have to agree with Damin -- Bret's ability in the ring is what made him a superstar back in the day, not his mic skills. Today, mic skills are even more important to have. His segment backstage with Edge and Jericho made me feel like he was reduced to "lame guest host status" because their acting skills are so much better. Maybe we're spoiled today, because so many wrestlers are expressive and good talkers. I like Bret, but I'm still not sure how well he'll fit in with this new generation.
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[Grand Master Sef]

lets see, i'll try to go point by point...for fun.

[Ravage]

I think you CAN be a tweener long-term, if you're played out right. Taker, Kane, Show and Abyss have all managed this just fine (nobody for as long as Taker, obviously). You just have to be booked as a monster, get the crowd behind you, and not give a damn. I don't think Orton should play to the crowd at all...he just needs to come down silent and ominous, as he has been, kick ass, and go back. No dirty playing, that's too heel, and no playing the crowd - too face. I want to see him just be a total no-nonsense VIPER that he really does play very well. Just make him a little darker and a little more unstoppable, and I think you've got a winner. He would, however, not be able to be booked weakly ever again, which means that they couldn't use him quite as much. We'll see.

I agree that Brett as GM is far better than Vickie/Vince/Teddy/even Regal, as this is basically what has been going on for the last FIVE YEARS. They do need to find a new Eric Bischoff, but I'm not sure where to look for that. My first thought is Striker, but he's too good on color. They should probably bring in someone with no Wrestling ties at all...or, dare I say, JBL????

[Dana]

They originally tried pushing Austin as a heel, but the crowd turned him into a tweener. If they had never started the Austin vs. Vince angle (which turned him face), he wouldn't have become one of the top wrestlers of all time. Taker hasn't been a tweener for a long, long time. Kane only seems like one because they use him so poorly... "oh, we have a small guy to crush? Book Kane. Oh, we have someone who needs to learn a lesson? Book Kane." Tweeners rarely stay that way, because the crowds want them to go one way or the other. The crowd is the only unstoppable force in wrestling, not the characters.

[Ravage]

I disagree completely about the Tweener characters. Taker is totally a tweener, no matter what the crowd reaction is. Crowd reaction doesn't dictate the dynamic, it just should be the measuring stick by which writers base the face/heel swings. A true tweener is not something you typically see, but I'd argue that Taker currently still fills that role. Kane has been toggling face/heel recently, so not him, but he used to do it as well.

[Grand Master Sef]

Taker used to be a tweener when started. The crowd hated him because he was new and fighting Hogan. He quickly became a face and spoke on the mic as one. Then Ministry Taker showed up. He was a full heel and spoke on the mic like one. Then Biker Taker, full face then heel, then face again. Spoke like it each time. Then he returned at WM20 as the dead man. Since then, he's acted like a bit of a tweener but mostly a face. He doesn't speak on the mic as often as he used to but when he does its pretty much a face speech for the crowd to scare his opponent. He doesn't wrestler bad guys so really, he's a face. I understand the fact that Randy ignores the crowd but Taker never does and never has. He's always used to crowd which is why he's so great. A true tweener, can't stay that way for too long because the crowd will push them one way and the writers will follow or loose interest if it doesn't happen. Like it or not, Randy is a tweener but he's leaning face and it'll be full blown soon enough. He may not change his actions too much but it'll be just subtle enough to notice.

Kane was sort of a tweener several years ago but he's really been a heel and face too. Really, Show has been the best tweener ever. He's currently the only guy I'd throw in that category. He fights heels and faces, he makes jokes and gets the crowd behind him then makes fun of their favorite heel and then them BUT everyone still loves him cuz...he's the BIG SHOW! So, Big Show may be the only true tweener and a long term one...but we'll see.

As for a new dead man. I'm seriously doubting it. You'd have to do it with a new guy and that's risky.

I think the new Bischoff would HAVE to be a brand new face to wrestling. However, I'd rather see JBL as GM of RAW for a VERY long time. It'd be fantastic.
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[Ravage]

Mmmmm, still disagree, and still think Taker is a tweener right now.
You can't get more tweener than to be completely disaffected by heels and faces equally, and I believe Taker is.

Sure, he's booked more as a face, but booking can change with the wind, especially with someone who rides the line like he does.

/agree about Show, tho.

[Grand Master Sef]

it seems our fundamental disconnect is that you feel a tweener is someone who ignores everyone, their environment doesn't effect them. However, I feel the character makes them a tweener or not. Tweener means in between good and bad, being neither or both. Taker doesn't take heel actions...ever. He may play a dark and seemingly evil character but the people love him and he fights for them...for good. Show fights for himself. his character has even said it but in the next breathe he'll make fun of a heel for being a jerk.

Taker doesn't do that. Randy sorta does. He's interacting with faces now but he isn't friends with them. he's taking heel actions but yet he's turning against the bad guys. it won't last long though.

i guess we disagree.

by the way...if my computer was functioning, i'd probably not be talking this much about tweeners in wrestling. seems its time to fix it.
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